Arguments for Trading Cabrera and Willis
We’ve talked about this before:
We’ve talked about this before:
Now that we’ve all had a day to digest the big trade, here are some of our thoughts:
Most Marlins fans are angry. We traded away the best hitter and the best pitcher in franchise history. Both likable, both marketable, both young. Most people haven’t heard of any of the guys we got in return.
The more we read, the more it sounds like Andrew Miller is the real deal. Tall and powerful with a slider and a cutter.
He’s only 20 years old, but you have to wonder whether Cameron Maybin is nothing more than another Preston Wilson or even worse Reggie Abercrombie
Dallas Trahern may end up being a diamond in the rough.
What did we get for Dontrelle? We should have received Miller, Maybin, Rabelo and probably one of the other pitching prospects for Cabrera alone.
It’s Hanley’s team now.
Who’s on third? I say Uggla and lets find a good defensive second basemen. Pitching and defense wins games.
We all know the payroll is very low so would the team consider a one-year “special” deal for Andruw Jones?
And about that payroll issue: The Marlins are profitable with this kind of payroll. It may not be as high as Forbes estimated, but it should be quite a bit. The Marlins can do themselves a great benefit if they come out and tell us that they are setting aside all this money to help build a ballpark. Miggie and Dontrelle for a new ballpark? I’d accept that deal.
Finally, whatever happened to Dave Dombrowksi? He used to be a genius at acquiring great young talent. Now he’s collecting former Marlins and trading away his entire farm.
Optimism from DeadSpin: “it wouldn’t surprise us in the least to see that collection of Florida cheap youngsters do one of their patented annoying wild-card runs to the World Series in a couple of years”
The Chicago White Sox have acquired Cabrera. That is, Orlando Cabrera from the Angels.
But that’s not the story here.
Looks like they’re focused on an all-Cabrera left side of the infield as their GM Ken Williams claims that this deal clears some financial room ($3MM) for another deal. And that deal is:
“We’re not done yet. We’re still trying to land a big fish,” Williams said.
You know who which fish he’s talking about.
We’ve been debating here what to do with Miguel Cabrera and here is one view:
The more I think about it, the more I am OK with trading Cabrera (assuming the trade is for value).
With all this Cabrera talk, did anybody every realize that trading him might not be the a bad thing for the club? First, they can get a lot in return (and are apparently asking for a lot). Second, given the Marlins’ revenue constraints, is Cabrera really worth the cost?
Take a look at these stats… Is Cabrera really that far ahead of Hanley or Uggla?
| Player | POS | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | TB | BB | SO | SB | CS | OBP | SLG | AVG |
| Cabrera | 3B | 157 | 588 | 91 | 188 | 38 | 2 | 34 | 119 | 332 | 79 | 127 | 2 | 1 | .401 | .565 | .320 |
| Ramirez | SS | 154 | 639 | 125 | 212 | 48 | 6 | 29 | 81 | 359 | 52 | 95 | 51 | 14 | .386 | .562 | .332 |
| Uggla | 2B | 159 | 632 | 113 | 155 | 49 | 3 | 31 | 88 | 303 | 68 | 167 | 2 | 1 | .326 | .476 | .245 |
Now, if you are the Marlins, you can keep Cabrera for now but can you keep him in the future (and will you want to?). In the long run (even with a stadium) it will be impossible to keep Cabrera and Ramirez (in addition to young pitchers like Olsen, Nolasco, Sanchez, Mitre, and Johnson). In fact with many of those joining the team at the same time, it seems that down the road the Marlins will hit a time when these young talented players will all be arbitration eligible during the same year and their salaries will increase exponentially. Even with a stadium, the Marlins will never have a revenue stream like the Yankees or Red Sox which will allow them to sign and keep all those players. In other words, Cabrera will either get traded some day or be lost to free agency. Alternatively, the Marlins could plan to keep Cabrera in the long run but that would mean planning on losing one of the other young talented players. Would you keep Cabrera, a player who has shown himself to be lazy and indifferent at times and who for two seasons now has been completely unable to control his physical conditioning and declining defensive skills, or do you keep the guys that hustle and will be able to do something other than hitting? Last I checked baseball does not maintain separate defensive and offensive squads. The concern is that while Cabrera will become the equivalent of Pavel Bure — offensively flashy, defensively useless, and always a member of a losing team, guys like Ramirez and Uggla are dedicated and hardworking.
That leaves the last question — do you keep Cabrera now, knowing that he will be gone in the future? That depends on whether you can get the trade value you want. This team has many holes that need to be filled in. After last year, we can all admit there is much room for improvement. Trading Cabrera is the most efficient way to fill those holes while securing this team’s on-field future.
Today is Game 1 of the NLCS and it will feature two expansion teams. Tomorrow’s ALCS Game 1 features the long suffering but finally reprieved Red Sox and the long suffering Indians. The story lines are historically fascinating because Boston or Arizona may join the Marlins with their 2nd world series in the last decade, the Indians may record their first in half-a-century, or Colorado their first ever. Regardless, you have to give Bud Selig some credit because 3 out of 4 of his expansion teams have done well. This is all great for the game.
Update: It’s also great when you look at payroll:
#2 – Boston Red Sox ($143,026,214)
#23 – Cleveland Indians ($61,673,267)
#25 – Colorado Rockies ($54,424,000)
#26 – Arizona Diamondbacks ($52,067,546)
Now, a completely different issue. More
The Marlins three ownership groups deserve the marjority of the blame for the problems with the franchise. Despite two World Series, the team has seen two major fire sales and for a few years fielded terrible teams. But nothing irks me more than reading the hatchet-jobs coming out of the local South Florida media. Today’s useless drivel comes from Dave Hyde of the Sun-Sentinel.
Entitled “Brace for departure of Marlins’ star duo”, this meaningless entry leads off with:
Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis? Who goes this winter? Who stays? Can we start a pool on whether both will be traded?
Yes, it looks serious this time. And before you raise a voice in protest, understand you don’t have a voice. Nor do I.
It then goes into a stupid anecdote about Bill Murray getting free seats from scalpers. Well, Mr. Hyde, thank you for finally discovering what we’ve known for years — our attendance sucks. As you point out, we’ve drawn more fans this season than we did in the 2003 World Series season. I’m not sure what you are trying to tell us. No one expects the Marlins to average 25,000 fans per game right now with this stadium. That is one of the many reasons (and you may have read about this in your own paper) that the team is trying to get a new ballpark.
Next, Mr. Hyde goes on to suggest that since ticket sales don’t matter, the Marlins don’t care what the fans think and will get rid of players no matter how damaging it is. To be fair, this ownership has invested quite a bit of money in PR, marketing, and community relations. No matter what happens, I do think they care. You are just regurgitating anti-Loria baggage that unfairly stuck to him with the dying franchise in Montreal (note to Expos fans: the franchise died long before Loria, get over it).
But that’s not what gets to me.
What bothers me is that Mr. Hyde is essentially making all this up. He may be 100% right or 100% wrong and it doesn’t matter because he actually doesn’t know. His commentary is speculation at best. In fact, he uses question marks twelve times in this article. This kind of useless writing simply tarnishes people’s reputation and creates a negative aura around the team even though they just completed an enjoyable 3-game sweep of the Cubs who are in the midst of a pennant race. Unlike you or me (I don’t really have that many readers), Mr. Hyde’s voice matters. He has hundreds of thousands of readers who rely on him for news, even if he thinks all he’s giving is opinion. It is his responsibility, just like those covering politics or the war, to actually write responsibly. If you have definite information from reliable sources in the Marlins organization — please tell us. We expect that from you and will praise you for it. But this stuff comes across as facts when it’s not.
I don’t know what will happen to Dontrelle, Miguel, or the Marlins. But neither does Mr. Hyde.
totally agree, the baseball writers for the local papers have been horrible. Ever since Kevin Martin (I think that was his name) left the Herald for bigger things, the writing has gone down the drain. The writers have given up on the franchise just as much as they have nationally. I think the journalists in Miami want to be part of their national fraternity so they are joining in the “group think” that the Marlins are a dead franchise that doesn’t matter.
Watching the last three games against the Cubs, I couldn’t help but notice the playoff-like atmosphere both on the field and in the stands. Clearly, having all those annoying Cubs fans yelling and screaming helped and the Cubs players were celebrating every key play, but you can clearly tell that Fredi and the gang were playing like we were in the race. Fredi’s use of the bullpen and the focus of our hitters showed what we’re all about. We even saw some big smiles after huge plays and after final outs. This should give us insight into what this team can really do. Now lets continue this in New York (and into next season). Nothing would make any Marlins fan happier than finishing off the Mets collapse.
OK, that’s enough of talking about the attendance at Wednesday’s game. We thank the NBC Nightly News for covering this story, it’s really important in light of everything else going on in the world. For all you Marlins-haters: get over it.
Since we are at the point when we can question and criticize this season’s Marlins, the Palm Beach Post throws us some fastballs with Fredi Gonzalez’s face all over them. They tell us this:
Girardi was widely admired by his players. All indications are that Gonzalez has gained similar respect.
and
“He talks to you like you’re his son. He doesn’t talk to you like he’s your leader. He’s more of a family-oriented manager. You know if you ever had a problem with anything he’s the first guy you’d feel comfortable going to.”
So question to all the fish fans — is the team better off with a dictator or a father figure?
“He has gotten a lot wiser. He’s real good at being the same. He knows that consistency in the chair that he sits in is probably the strongest quality you can have and he’s not going to waver from that.”
Is he too consistent? He’s a rookie manager, shouldn’t there be some kind of correction?
Or should we just say that injuries killed the season and it doesn’t matter what the manager did?
We’re probably going to get nailed for this one, but we’re going to throw it out there: the Florida Marlins should fire Rick Kranitz.
Yes, he was Baseball America’s Major League Coach of the Year last season leading 4 rookies to win 10+ games. And yes, we’re a bunch of fans who aren’t there every day and have never played the game.
But, there is something wrong with the pitching staff. Despite our defense and despite our strikeouts, it’s the pitching that has let the team down this year. Here are some of the talking points:
This is just one man’s opinion.